Impeachment Inquiry Transcripts: Read Excerpts of Sondland’s and Volker’s Testimonies

The House committees leading the impeachment inquiry on Tuesday released transcripts from two more closed-door depositions as the proceedings move to a more public phase.

The transcripts include witness testimony from two figures central to the inquiry, Gordon D. Sondland, the United States ambassador to the European Union, and Kurt D. Volker, the former special envoy to Ukraine. Reporters from The New York Times are combing through the documents now, highlighting key parts and offering context and analysis.

Sondland told a Ukrainian official that more than an Oval Office meeting was at stake unless the Ukrainians announced the investigations that Trump sought.

Volker transcript, in text messages released with his testimony, Page 403: “Drove the ‘larger issue’ home with Yermak. Not about just a meeting but the relationship per se.”

By mid-August, the American officials were trying to impress upon Ukrainian officials the need for them to publicly announce investigations into Joseph R. Biden Jr., one of Mr. Trump’s political rivals, and into a conspiracy theory that Ukraine worked against Mr. Trump in the 2016 election.

In this Aug. 19 text message to another American diplomat, Mr. Sondland wrote that he told Andriy Yermak, a top Ukrainian aide, that an Oval Office meeting between Mr. Trump and Mr. Zelensky was not all that hung in the balance. The larger “relationship” between Ukraine and the United States was also at risk, he implied. The Ukrainians wanted the Oval Office meeting to bolster Mr. Zelensky’s credibility. But even more important, they wanted the White House to release its hold on $391 million in military assistance to help Ukraine fight pro-Russians forces waging a separatist war in eastern Ukraine.
— Sharon LaFraniere

Sondland said he received a misleading description of the July call between Trump and his Ukrainian counterpart.

Sondland transcript, Page 251: “I think the only readouts I remember seeing were the ones from my team, which were very innocuous, and did not represent what was actually said on the call that I found out once the transcript was a released.”

Even though he was dealing directly with the Ukrainian government to set up a meeting between the two presidents, Mr. Sondland said he was not given a summary of the telephone call between President Trump and President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine until months later, when the transcript of the conversation was released in September.

He said the earlier descriptions of the call, as provided by his advisers, did not refer to any hold being put on American aid to Ukraine. Nor was there any indication of a quid pro quo, Mr. Sondland said.
— Lara Jakes

Trump complained Ukraine was trying to take him down.

Volker transcript, Page 31: “He gave the example of hearing from Rudy Giuliani that they’re all corrupt, they’re all terrible people, that they were — they tried to take me down — meaning the president in the 2016 election.”

Mr. Volker told impeachment investigators that President Trump dismissed their positive assessments of Ukraine during a May 23 meeting at the White House because of what he was hearing from his personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani.

That story was echoed by Mr. Sondland, who told investigators that he had also heard Mr. Trump make a remark about believing that Ukraine wanted to take him down.
— Michael D. Shear

Days before the July 25 call, Volker warned Giuliani that the Biden-Ukraine narrative was not credible.

Volker transcript, Page 203: “And I said to Rudy in that breakfast the first time we sat down to talk that it is simply not credible to me that Joe Biden would be influenced in his duties as vice president by money or things for his son or anything like that. I’ve known him a long time, he’s a person of integrity, and that’s not credible.”

According to Mr. Volker, he had breakfast with Mr. Giuliani and Mr. Giuliani’s associate Lev Parnas at the Trump Hotel six days before the phone call between Mr. Trump and Mr. Zelensky. During their meeting, Mr. Volker tried to convince Mr. Giuliani that the allegations against Mr. Biden and his younger son, Hunter Biden, were not credible. Mr. Volker said he tried to explain to Mr. Giuliani that if Ukraine wanted to investigate possible corruption in one of its companies, Burisma Holdings, that was one thing, but Mr. Volker said he tried to warn Mr. Giuliani not to tie it to the Bidens because it would be seen as political.
— Eileen Sullivan

In early July, Volker and Zelensky suggested that Giuliani’s involvement in Ukraine affairs was a problem.

Volker transcript, Page 138: “The negative narrative about Ukraine which Mr. Giuliani was furthering was the problem. It was, in my view, it was impeding our ability to build the relationship the way we should be doing.”

Mr. Volker and Mr. Zelensky met in Toronto on July 3, a few weeks before the phone call between Mr. Trump and Mr. Zelensky that is at the center of the impeachment inquiry. By Mr. Volker’s account, he and Mr. Zelensky discussed the problem that Mr. Giuliani was causing by pushing a negative narrative about Ukraine’s corruption as Mr. Zelensky was working to introduce his reform agenda. This shows that during the July 25 phone call, when Mr. Trump suggested that Mr. Zelensky work with Mr. Giuliani, Mr. Zelensky was well-aware of what the president’s personal lawyer was doing.
— Eileen Sullivan

The top U.S. diplomat in Kiev hesitated about taking the job partly because of the influence of Giuliani.

Volker transcript, in text messages released with his testimony, Page 386: “I am still struggling with the decision whether to go. Can anyone hope to succeed with the Giuliani/Biden issue swirling for the next 18 months?” Mr. Taylor said in text messages.

Later Mr. Taylor asked, “Do I want to enter this non-normal world?”

William B. Taylor Jr., now the top American diplomat in Kiev, sent this message to Mr. Volker on May 26, before agreeing to succeed Marie. L. Yovanovitch, who was ousted as the American ambassador to Ukraine. He specifically mentioned Mr. Giuliani in the context of “Biden.” This appears to be a reference to Mr. Giuliani’s claims, echoed by President Trump, that as vice president, Joseph R. Biden Jr. tried to squash a criminal inquiry of a Ukrainian company that had hired Mr. Biden’s son as a board member. No evidence has surfaced to support those claims. He was also worried about the lack of a normal chain of command.
— Sharon LaFraniere

White House lawyers called Sondland hours before whistle-blower report was made public.

Sondland transcript, Page 38: “I had a brief conversation with the White House Counsel’s Office when the whistleblower’s report came out mentioning my name, and the White House Counsel’s Office reached me, I was in New York at the United Nation Trans-Atlantic dinner. I stepped out of the meeting to take the call.”

Mr. Sondland told House investigators that the White House Counsel’s Office gave him a head’s up a few hours before the public release of the whistle-blower’s report about Mr. Trump’s telephone call with the president of Ukraine. Michael Purpura, a White House lawyer, reached him by phone a few hours later, asking Mr. Sondland to come in for an interview since his name was mentioned in the document. Mr. Sondland told investigators that he did not agree to the interview with White House lawyers.
— Michael D. Shear

A top national security adviser was ‘shaking’ in anger over what she saw as dysfunction at the White House.

Sondland transcript, Page 266: “And she [Fiona Hill] was pretty upset about her role in the administration, about her superiors, about the president. She was sort of shaking. She was pretty mad.”

Sondland transcript, Page 267: “She’s usually pretty calm, collected, straightforward, but she was pretty emotional.”

Fiona Hill, a Russia scholar, was a top foreign policy adviser to Mr. Trump before she resigned on July 19 — days before the telephone call between the president and Mr. Zelensky. Over a cup of coffee with Mr. Sondland a few days before she left, Ms. Hill specifically criticized Mr. Trump and John. R. Bolton, the White House national security adviser.

Mr. Sondland recounted to House investigators that Ms. Hill said the National Security Council was not well run, and said she described disorder and communications problems in the Trump administration. He described a cordial working relationship with Ms. Hill and said their 15-to-20 minute meeting ended with a hug.

Ms. Hill has told investigators that she believed Mr. Sondland was too inexperienced for his post as ambassador to the European Union, and therefore was a counterintelligence risk.
— Lara Jakes