Let us start with party matters. Wiper intends to change its name by dropping ‘Kenya’ and adopting new colours. Could you speak of the significance of this intended change?
I don’t want to jump the gun because the decision to amend the party’s constitution must be taken by the top organ, in this case the National Delegates Congress (NDC). We are proposing to have one before the end of this month. These proposals are going to make it easy to have a fully functioning political movement.
The proposal to drop ‘Kenya’ is just to make it easier because everybody is used to Wiper Democratic Movement. The history of ‘Kenya’ started with ODM-Kenya when the oranges defeated the bananas during the referendum of 2005.
I remember calling (Najib) Balala from Halifax in Canada during an orange rally in Kisumu and asked him to announce that ODM is going to be a political party. I think on hearing that, our competitors decided to go and block the registration.
So we had to use ‘Kenya’ because there was already a registered party called ODM. So we opted for ODM-Kenya. Narc has had the same issue when Martha Karua registered Narc-Kenya.
We are rebranding the party deliberately. A lot of people felt that the blue we have needs to be improved and the winning colour is the royal blue. So we are changing from sky blue to royal blue. The other colours will stay the same.
What is going on in One Kenya Alliance? Before the weekend events in Western, there had been a lull in terms of public engagements by the principals. Why?
First of all, this was informed by the Covid-19 problem. When the positivity rate went high, every Kenyan leader should have known that this is a matter of great national and international concern. And when guidelines were given, obviously we had to abide. Some of our competitors ignored and they became super-spreaders. That’s a fact. So many Kenyans lost their lives because of that carelessness.
I also think it is just a matter of people wanting to badmouth others. We also were cognisant of the fact that time is coming. We were accused of being in endless boardroom meetings and many other things. But we are now moving. You will notice what happened in Kakamega. From there we went to Thika. Now we are planning a tour of the Coast. We are going to visit every part of the country.
You have stated that you will be on the ballot paper as a presidential candidate in 2022. The ANC leader Musalia Mudavadi has also been categorical that he will be on the ballot. What will it take you to stand down in favour of Mr Mudavadi?
At the Ford Kenya national delegates meeting, I heard the deputy party leader of ANC say that the best approach is for us to agree. We have done it before. The reason we went our separate ways in 2007 was because our friends who later joined ODM were so impatient to pretend they were the ones to lead and there should be no discussion. Then the fallout in Mombasa followed. We did not even have guidelines on how we were going to nominate candidates. We have all that experience.
I can tell you that we will agree as OKA. It would be a case of first among equals. Whoever will be the flagbearer will do so because there must be a figurehead. It is a team.
Then we will have to come up with clearly negotiated positions, not offices, and terms of engagement. By the way we had a very well-negotiated Nasa coalition agreement, which people ignored because they didn’t even want to have the first meeting of the partners.
In OKA, things are abit different. The gelling among the partners is amazing. But we know there have been attempts to sow bad blood tocreate confusion. I can tell you there is no such a thing as mistrust between me and Musalia.
What are your timelines in picking the OKA flagbearer?
I think our priority is to go out and talk to people with our ideas which are going to liberate this country. We need to liberate our people from poverty, hunger and make this country competitive.
You just mentioned Nasa. When you look back, what pains you most about its death?
I am not sure it pains, may be just a feeling of dismay and a sense of disloyalty. When we had a meeting of minds and negotiated the Nasa coalition agreement, had we followed the letter and the spirit, we would be very far. But I can tell you I tried many times to get this thing going. Musalia and Wetang’ula kept telling me that as Raila’s running mate, I should get him to meet with the rest of us. But there was no time. So I saw Nasa dying. It wasn’t a painful death but a sad one.
It is a lesson we must learn never to repeat. We want to preach the gospel of truthfulness in politics. If you commit to something in writing, remain true to it. My word as a Senior Counsel and an advocate of the High Court is my bond. I don’t know how to disown my friends. I get let down but I don’t disown a friend.
OKA principals and ODM leader Raila Odinga have held several meetings with President Uhuru Kenyatta as coalition talks dominate our politics. Could you tell us about the meetings and the suggestion that the President favours Odinga?
There are very unfortunate speculations around these meetings. The best thing is for the media to wait for communication. The moment we do a communique, believe it. And for a publication like Nation for which you are writing for, we were shocked after the Mombasa meeting when you reported ‘‘OKA chiefs cornered to support Raila’’. The media has a right to report on any candidate but please, don’t knock our heads.
On those summits, some of the discussions are privileged. Otherwise, we would have been issuing statements.
But I can confirm that there is no attempt by the President to whip us in a certain way. That is the impression the media is creating. The other day we had an appointment to see him at State House at 5pm on Friday, but we left Kakamega late and it had rained.
So we did not see him that Friday but on Saturday morning upon our request. We continue with consultations in an open, friendly manner. The media should not speculate. If I was Uhuru, I would be very unhappy with you people and the things you are speculating about his meetings with us.
Do you, or any of your OKA colleagues have any pressure from whichever quarter to support Raila?
At my level, I can tell you I am not under any pressure. Take it from me. Anybody who wants to work with us, OKA remains focused and is growing and we will not close the door on anybody. When you are talking about leading the country, you must sit down as equal partners, negotiate and look at the best interest of the country.
You have in the past said that you would rather retire from politics than support Raila again…
Do you still hold this position?
Well, your readers must appreciate that I supported Raila in 2013 as his running mate and in 2017. Surely, to support him a third time would take some really serious introspection. That is why I said I would be a fool. May be, I could turn up to be that fool. If I end up supporting him again then I would have to give a good reason.If it comes to that, there will be negotiations. And as they say in business, you don’t get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate for.
The DP has in recent weeks camped in Ukambani. Are you concerned about the DP’s frequent visits?
I think he has made Ukambani his place and he is most welcome. But what he must know is that the Kambas are very bright people. He can be there 100 times. They will take all his money and his goodies. And by the way, I wonder why he bribes people in Ukambani and not Eldoret. That tells you that he knows there is a problem here. And that problem is always a case of the guilty being afraid. They are going to reject him. Those people cannot be bribed.
The Kambas will not throw stones at you or abuse you. They will watch you but at the back of their minds they know where they belong. In 2013, that community gave Raila more support than Luo Nyanza. They have stood with me in the last three elections in 2007, 2013 and 2017. It takes time to develop that level of trust with the electorate. Once you are a trusted servant ,they can trust you with their lives.
So, I am very much at peace and I want Ruto to go there 100 times and bring in more goodies in wheelbarrows and baskets. But the decision on who is going to be next leader is a different question that the money and the goodies cannot buy.
Have there been any advances from DP Ruto seeking you to partner with him?
No, it hasn’t gotten to that. If you hear them looking for me, tell them I am available because Kenyans must consult. If they want to reach out to me, they are most welcome.
As president, what economic ideas do you have for this country?
When we were launching the Command Centre, which is where we are, I set up a competition for graffiti and this is wonderful work (pointing to the graffiti of his ideas). Sustainable management, economic recovery and development, zero tolerance to corruption, green gold which is agriculture, and then of course the One Kenya Alliance.
These are the ideas and the manifesto is under preparation. There is serious thinking going into it. But you must also remember that one of the best manifestoes ever produced was the ODM-Kenya one in 2007. I started talking of the 24-hour economy and people did not understand.
When Jubilee took over, they confused a 24-hour economy with putting mulika mwizi streetlights all over the place. My view of a 24-hour economy is really a revolutionary idea. In order to recover from the devastation of Covid-19, we will need to redouble our efforts as a country and the continent.
My idea of a 24-hour economy, working in three shifts. This is what my manifesto team is working on. So that you have one shift from 8am to 4pm, another shift from 4pm to around midnight and then the next shift which will take over up to 8am.
With this you will be able to get a lot of youths employed. That is number one. You will then multiply our country’s GDP. This idea, coupled with my thinking that in a globalised world economy, and one of the lessons Covid-19 taught people, that they can work from their bedrooms, and really cover the world.
When President Kibaki and I formed the grand coalition, we brought in the fibre optic connectivity. We are not fully at 4G and people are already moving to 5G. With it, if the youths, given the correct environment where they are not limited by data bundles, they can do a lot. Remember the Sh4.2 billion spent on the fibre optic cable was an investment by the government to the economy and the youths should not be charged for it.
We are also talking about agriculture. Given the growth of population, we are getting into a situation where the world is stressed. It means that the idea of feeding the world becomes an issue.
When we are discussing the environment, which has become part and parcel of our lives, whatever food you are eating must take into account what impact it has on the environment. What I am saying is that there is world of opportunities for the youth to get involved in agriculture. Soil your hands that is ok, but grow food enough to feed ourselves and to export the surplus.
As part of that we will also make sure there are markets for the surplus. My idea of green gold is a wide ranging approach, which is going to give our people ability to farm, store the produce and market it when they want. We want to have a lot of cold storage facilities. So, for me the future is in agriculture and it is going to form a key plank in our manifesto.
Speaking of sustainable agriculture, there is the Wikithuki Irrigation Scheme in Kitui. How can you scale this up this idea?
That actually is my idea. When I started it, people thought I was mad. It is on the boundary of Meru and Kitui counties and slightly to the right is Isiolo County. Very interesting. An area that has always been suffering from food deficiency, and this is something that is farmers-driven not like what they did with Galana Kulalu which is heavily mechanised. These are locals and they are only given water. President Kibaki and I used Sh300 million to start that project. If you gave that project Sh1 billion, it will be able to feed the entire Ukambani and the people would never be going to Meru as economic refugees. A lot of my relatives migrated to Meru in search of food and some ended up in Kirinyaga.
I am passionate about this project because it is proof that you can grow food in any part of this country. It ties very well with my idea of green gold and actually, its success makes me believe that agriculture is the way to go and that is the reason green gold will be a key plank in our manifesto. We are using that as a revolutionary idea with a view to expanding it to cover a lot more land and to secure availability of food.
Tomorrow in the Sunday Nation: Kalonzo narrates how Raila took on Moi during a tense meeting at State House that ended in disarray, the first time the former VP saw Moi explode in anger.
